Getting New Tech Adopted (with Dov Katz)
Getting new technology adopted in a large organization can feel like pushing water uphill. The best tools in the world are useless if we're not allowed to use them, and as companies grow, their habits turn into inertia, then into "the way we've always done things." So how do you break through that resistance and get meaningful change to happen? This week's guest is Dov Katz from Morgan Stanley, who specializes in exactly this challenge - driving developer productivity and getting new practices adopted across thousands of developers. We explore the art of organizational change from every angle: How do you get management buy-in? How do you build grassroots developer enthusiasm? When should you use deterministic tools like OpenRewrite versus AI-powered solutions? And what role does open source play in breaking down the walls between competing financial institutions? Whether you're trying to modernize a legacy codebase, reduce technical debt, or just get your team to try that promising new tool you've discovered, this conversation offers practical strategies for navigating the complex dynamics of enterprise software development. Because sometimes the hardest part of our job isn't writing code - it's getting permission to write better code. --- Support Developer Voices on Patreon: https://patreon.com/DeveloperVoices Support Developer Voices on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DeveloperVoices/join Morgan Stanley: https://www.morganstanley.com/ OpenRewrite: https://docs.openrewrite.org/ Spring Framework: https://spring.io/ Spring Integration: https://spring.io/projects/spring-integration Apache Camel: https://camel.apache.org/ FINOS (FinTech Open Source Foundation): https://www.finos.org/ Linux Foundation: https://www.linuxfoundation.org/ Moderne (Code Remix conference organizers): https://www.moderne.io/ Code Remix Conference: https://www.moderne.io/events Kris on Bluesky: https://bsky.app/profile/krisajenkins.bsky.social Kris on Mastodon: http://mastodon.social/@krisajenkins Kris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/krisjenkins/ --- 0:00 Intro 2:21 Getting New Tech Adopted at Large Companies 6:23 Aligning Innovation with Management Strategy 10:00 Scaling Technical Debt Remediation 12:20 Building Developer Platform Stacks 14:08 The Automation Marketplace Approach 18:08 Automated Code Migrations and OpenRewrite 19:57 Internal Framework Upgrades at Scale 24:14 Making Technical Debt Visible 28:00 The Mandate Problem: Carrots vs Sticks 32:20 Measuring Developer Productivity 36:00 AI in the Enterprise: Security and Policy Challenges 40:00 Using AI for Code Modernization 44:10 Cultural Resistance to AI Tools 48:00 Building vs. Buying: When to Use External Solutions 50:02 Enterprise-Ready Software Requirements 53:40 SaaS Adoption in Regulated Industries 57:00 Selling to Enterprise: The Reality Check 59:30 Open Source as an Enterprise Strategy 1:02:00 The Trust Factor in Technology Adoption 1:04:17 Outro